DUST Search - Sniping - Current State

Samantha Hunyz wrote:

KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:

Very true that sniping is very dull in Dust.

Two major factors, both fixable.

1) The "optimal" range is absolute range, there is no falloff and there is no real optimal range.
The fix would allow snipers shoot at far ranges, but at extreme ranges the damage isn't lethal anymore.

2) The sway, or the lack of it.
The sway mechanic is idiotic, lazily designed and I'm willing the guess it's the placeholder from beta times.
It's bad because the it is stupidly circular, and it doesn't interact with player controls. The worst thing is that when it settles, it is 100% stable. That is just plain stupid.
The fix:
- sway can be more predictable, meaning that if you just crouched, the gun makes a certain kind of nod (with small random element)
- the sight should never be 100% stable. Even 99% would be good!
- The sway should react to aim actions. If you jolt your aime quickly to the left, then aim should have 'mass' related move, and then countermove.
- Maybe a mechanic for holding breath, or just simply that 3 to 20 seconds after stabilising the aim you have the best stability, after which it starts to deteriorate

and a bonus for a perfect world

3) lack of ballistics.
Well, this one isn't necessary, and it would be a bastard to program, and maybe bad for PS3 computing taskload.

#1 is to just add realism where it is not needed.

#2 is just a bad idea. With no aim assist and only being able to use 50% of the thumb sticks to aim is challenging enough. Adding more natural sway would make the borderline obsolete SR to pure redline sniping only. Why would I risk a proto suit, mods, and SR on the field if the aiming mechanics were any worse than they already are?

#3 Not enough info.

The SR was had zero buffs since I started sniping and is suffering due to the HP and speed buffs this game has under went. Not to mention range and map nerfs. I could live with the range nerf, but CCP continues to block ok sniping spots by putting huge structures between them. Not to mention most newer maps are either huge walled complexes, or too small to be of much use.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 253	Posted - 2015.05.08 17:28:00 - [1] - Quote Wasn't IWS supposed to go ahead and collect sniper feedback as CCP Rattati stated in a post a month or two back? Don't know if he did, but I'll go from where we left off. From what I recall, when 1.8 dropped, range was nerfed 200m+ on multiple SR's in an effort to bring snipers closer to the battle and to see more variant usage. It was effective in doing that. At the same time, however, on some maps (old and new), domination objectives were placed indoors or surrounded by cover. That seems counter-intuitive, for one, as the point of having snipers covering objectives is for them to be able to provide suppression fire. On outdoor objective maps, we can still do it on some maps, just not at good angles. Secondly, for being in the future, the farthest we can shoot is 400m. The range nerf was a bit much imo. At 400m maximum some targets become out of reach whereas 450m would be optimal, reason being, snipers can eliminate far away threats that are incoming toward objectives. Currently that can't be done as effectively since they don't register until the enemy is within 400m. I will note though that the reduced range can be adapted to on maps where sockets within the map provide enough elevation and cover. I emphasize the cover part because high ground alone makes you a sitting duck. I found some of these sockets and I thank CCP for not redling/timing out players the edges of the map to prevent us from having viable perches at these locations within the map. Lastly, On the train map, there are viable rooftops and installations, but for the newer map with all the crates and everyone just camps inside by the objective, I feel there has to be some high ground sockets with cover placed on opposite ends of the ramps leading into the objective. The crates alone provide no cover. Though there is a clear line of sight from there into the ramp way and around the map, the main thing is installations can still hit you from there and doesn't make it a viable perch. The only one of note on that map is the bottom of the spire. I suggest adding higher perches or more cover. ADS obviously can always find us regardless of how high or how covered we are. This is just my 2 ISK since 1.8 there was some sniper feedback but it was overlooked. We were supposed to have a discussion post 1.8 prior to the Hotfix that followed, but all that was added was bullet sniper bullet trails. In my eyes, every class and play style should be a viable option in this game as they are in others. Assaults should excel at assaulting, Medic/Logistics should excel at support roles, Heavies should excel at point defense, and Snipers/Scouts/Infiltrators should excel at suppression, counter-tactics, and hacking. Great ones are the X-factors, but not when their role is crippled by in-game mechanics. I see you coming from a mile away.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 253	Posted - 2015.05.10 14:46:00 - [2] - Quote abdullah muzaffar wrote: What i would like is sll variants to have same range, and an even higher hs multiplier to kill that tanked sentinel in the redline with a thales. No sway when ads. Slightly bigger reticule and magnifixation, along with projectile size. I think the headshot multiplier is high enough. If someone is sniping in a sentinel suit, they are doing it wrong anyway. At SR proficiency 5, there still is an initial sway when crouched, however, it's reduced compared to if you didn't put any points in it. A bigger reticule I can understand, however, increased magnification would be beneficial if we had slightly more range (450m). As is, I personally can see targets just fine at 400m and beyond, but can't shoot at visible targets outside of the maximum. I see you coming from a mile away.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 253	Posted - 2015.05.11 01:01:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sniping is in a pretty awful state in PC, to say the least. The range nerf killed a lot of half-decent sniper spots and left a gap in how high-ground superiority is established. Snipers have to be so close to the frontlines to be able to snipe targets on higher locations within outposts that it puts far too much risk association due to objective proximity. Point in case: Caldari Biomass Outpost. If you get this map what will likely happen is Commandos and Sentinels on the rooftops of the towers, mushroom building, and the semi-flat structure next to Alpha. It is nigh impossible to get them off once they're there because there are no areas to sniper from outside the objective more times than not, so the counter falls to a Dropship or Orbital Strike - both of which are unreliable because of Commando/Sentinel AV and Orbital strike frequency. The only role Snipers play in PC, at this point, is running a Thale's from the redline and semi-adequately guarding homebase. Yeah. It hasn't been viable for a while. If heavy FG's cover high ground, the splash damage is enough to cover an objective. Strafing combined with camping on hives make them tough to take out without an OB or DS drop to counter i.e. no need for sniper. Also, on home objectives, someone with a RR or a scout or two with RE's or any other weapon can easily hold home point. On a side note, as an update, the "beer cans" or batteries on the crate map work pretty well as snipe spots - at least, in acquisition. I see you coming from a mile away.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 257	Posted - 2015.08.27 10:13:00 - [4] - Quote I've been sniping in games, on and offline since I was 13. I'm now 26. It's hard for me not to care about this play style as it's the one I most enjoy. Assaults don't really understand what it's like to be in our shoes full-time cause the majority of FPS are catered around them i.e. direct/indirect nerfs. We're usually the last class to get looked at, if at all. All I can say is thank you for keeping the discussion going, even if you don't play/snipe anymore in this game. Haven't been playing for months, again, even though I bought a PS3 for it. On to MGSV from ESO now for me. If anyone, Aeon Amadi would be the guy to revamp this class and net it more WP from support funcions, map socket revamp, or weapon tweaks as he is a CPM that actually snipes. I see you coming from a mile away.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 259	Posted - 2015.08.28 00:29:00 - [5] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Skyline Lonewolf wrote: . . . A bigger reticule I can understand, however, increased magnification would be beneficial if we had slightly more range (450m). As is, I personally can see targets just fine at 400m and beyond, but can't shoot at visible targets outside of the maximum. . . I guess you are a symb user? Let's get first a medium detail straight: 450m is the max range for basic line of sniper rifles, into which the symb fork does not belong to. nope. i own them but don't use them often. Charged SR user. I see you coming from a mile away.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 260	Posted - 2015.08.28 19:44:00 - [6] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Very true that sniping is very dull in Dust. Two major factors, both fixable. 1) The "optimal" range is absolute range, there is no falloff and there is no real optimal range. The fix would allow snipers shoot at far ranges, but at extreme ranges the damage isn't lethal anymore. 2) The sway, or the lack of it. The sway mechanic is idiotic, lazily designed and I'm willing the guess it's the placeholder from beta times. It's bad because the it is stupidly circular, and it doesn't interact with player controls. The worst thing is that when it settles, it is 100% stable. That is just plain stupid. The fix: - sway can be more predictable, meaning that if you just crouched, the gun makes a certain kind of nod (with small random element) - the sight should never be 100% stable. Even 99% would be good! - The sway should react to aim actions. If you jolt your aime quickly to the left, then aim should have 'mass' related move, and then countermove. - Maybe a mechanic for holding breath, or just simply that 3 to 20 seconds after stabilising the aim you have the best stability, after which it starts to deteriorate and a bonus for a perfect world 3) lack of ballistics. Well, this one isn't necessary, and it would be a bastard to program, and maybe bad for PS3 computing taskload. #1 is to just add realism where it is not needed. #2 is just a bad idea. With no aim assist and only being able to use 50% of the thumb sticks to aim is challenging enough. Adding more natural sway would make the borderline obsolete SR to pure redline sniping only. Why would I risk a proto suit, mods, and SR on the field if the aiming mechanics were any worse than they already are? #3 Not enough info. The SR was had zero buffs since I started sniping and is suffering due to the HP and speed buffs this game has under went. Not to mention range and map nerfs. I could live with the range nerf, but CCP continues to block ok sniping spots by putting huge structures between them. Not to mention most newer maps are either huge walled complexes, or too small to be of much use. Yep. Sounds like Kero's asking for unnecessary nerfs for a class that already underperforms. 1) We're in the future. Lore states these guns are supposed to be able to shoot bullets that travel from 1-2Km per second to hit their target. All CCP had to do was move the redline back farther and keep the range like DICE does with BF. That way people can still run up on you and kill you but a sniper still can cover the whole playing field. And yes they've done it for past gen games as well. 2) Can say the same thing about assault weapons and their lack of realistic recoil patterns, but no one bothers arguing when that's brought up. We are in the future afterall. They've probably developed ways to counter recoil found somewhere in the lore. 2) Sniping is not in a position where you need to add ballistics and bullet drop like you see in BF and other games. Core game mechanics like lag, shield, glitching, rendering, limited firing range, socket placement purposely placed to block sniper fire, indoor maps made for assaults, HP stacked suits, speed of strafing, etc. already hinder the class. I see you coming from a mile away.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 263	Posted - 2015.08.31 04:44:00 - [7] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: If you guys could consolidate a list of suggestions and send them to me in -ONE- e-mail at [email protected] that would be greatly appreciated. As some of you may have noticed with some of the threads the CPM has been making we're making an effort to hit some balancing pain points on some of the weapons and the Sniper Rifle was one that came up. You know Aeon I would do this, or Symbs if he was still around, but I'm afraid I might be playing MGSV by Tuesday. I'm sure what you're looking for has been mentioned in any of the sniping posts, has debated over and over again, and can be found by forum searching "Sniping/snipers". Also wouldn't hurt to make an Official CPM Sniper Rifle/Class Feedback thread to gather and collect suggestions again so they'd be all in one area. Who knows, you'll most likely to get past and current snipers to chime in on the post, if they're still around, along with everyone else. I'll be sure to chime in. To me, increasing head shot multipliers and decreasing range, without changing or improving core mechanics, did little to help, but further hinder the class for veterans and newbies to the class, for anyone but those with pinpoint accuracy. All I know is this class or weapon needs an overhaul, if not the map sockets, but hit me up if you ever wanna chat, buddy. I see you coming from a mile away.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 264	Posted - 2015.09.01 23:59:00 - [8] - Quote The Minoan ManiacArchon wrote: I've said this before and I'll say it again... You do not eliminate redline sniping by nerfing the range. You do it by giving the sniper rifle unlimited range so they are vulnerable even in the redline by another sniper. The only way to get rid of a sniper is by countersniping... I know, I've sniped a lot... That's not the point in having balance, at least in terms of how the class interacts with the other classes as a whole. True, a counter-sniper is best suited for this job, but if we're going to get any range back, everyone else has to be able to kill us as well - even if it means sneaking up to our spot, coming in with a LAV or DS/ADS, etc. That's why I suggested moving the redline behind where snipers are known to snipe, while separating where the actual spawn locations are from this. That way we have our range, but are still vulnerable to anyone and everyone since we'd be within the playing field. I see you coming from a mile away.